Prof. Dr. Steffen Stelzer on Sufism

"Useful knowledge is whatever gets you closer to God."

Prof. Dr. Steffen Stelzer is the Chair of the Department of Philosophy at the American University in Cairo, teaching a broad range of different philosophical subjects. Originally German, he moved to Cairo in 1978 and lived there ever since. In Cairo he came into contact with a Sufi tariqa (a Sufi order) and became a member.

Prof. Stelzer, as you are a member of a Sufi order yourself, can you tell us how 'alive' Sufi orders are? Are they not a thing of the past?

In Turkey, as well as in many other countries of the middle east there certainly are Sufi groups or tariqa's that are alive but of course these are not the kind of very public or official ones. That's the problem of especially the Mevlevi order that has become a matter for tourism. It is not a live spiritual tradition anymore, though other tariqa's use some of the methods of the Mevlevi in their spiritual education.
For those traditions 'to be alive' actually depends on the fact whether the present Sheik is an inheritor in an uninterrupted chain. The important thing is whether the knowledge of Sufism has been transmitted through one link in the chain to today in an uninterrupted way. Today in many of those groups that chain has been cut. And then what we have is at best, what we call in Arabic: a “barakah” (which means it is something you do as some sort of blessing) or at worst it is a show. So you always have to look for a Sufi order where that chain is uninterrupted, where the present Sheik is an inheritor of a live tradition. Because that means he can guide people. That is very rare these days, but it still exists.

Is it then impossible for a new tradition to originate?

I would say so. The number of Sufi orders has been set a long time ago. There are also sayings of the prophet about how many groups Islam will divide in and supposedly only one of those groups will be the true embodiment of his message. But of course he doesn't say which group that will be – so people have a lot to fight about. Prof. Stelzer laughs.

That being so, would you say that you need to be a Sufi to really understand Rumi?

I would say yes. To understand Rumi truly, you have to be a Sufi, or you have to be a disciple of a true contemporary Sheik. If you're not, then you're missing at least one dimension. Perhaps you're even missing the main dimension.
Rumi is not a matter of scholars. He never claimed that himself, and he didn't like scholars too much – as most Sufi's don't. He was a Sheik. He was a spiritual master. And nothing of what he ever said or wrote was said or written without having spiritual education and training as it's purpose.
If we are having today texts of his where we say: “Ma?allah, that is such nice sounding poetry.” and so on, then we are missing that whole dimension. And as somebody who also lectured in this symposium said, that means we are in love with love itself, but we don't take it seriously. Because then we are basically in love with ourselves. It's a selfish thing. And spiritual education can never be selfish. If it serves yourself only, you're not going to move anywhere. You will stop.
So if you leave out that dimension, then you leave the most important dimension out. And that is why I think that even those people who's access to Rumi is mostly through reading, need that other dimension in addition. You can have it without books, that's possible too, because it's all the same knowledge that was inherited from the profit of Islam. But to have it through books without a spiritual master, that doesn't work.

How then would you comment on an academic setup like this symposium?

Let me put it like that. Rumi made a distinction in terms of sciences or knowledges. For instance in what he called the science of God (theology or any other kind of religious study) he considered one science or knowledge to be the one about God and another which is not to know about Him, but to know Him. All kinds of attempts to know about him, serve yourself only. Some are more interesting or more sophisticated than others, and some might be more sincere than others, but in the end, that is the limit.
To pursue knowledge that doesn't serve yourself means that you can not stop with the academic type of pursuit of knowledge. Then you need another kind of knowledge and that is what I call tarbiya, which is the Arabic word for spiritual education. So it will be very hard to find someone in the context of this symposium who is able to take that one step - but I too am here as an academic, so I should be careful of what I say of course. Prof. Stelzer laughs.
It's just that it requires an incredible amount of what we call humbleness or humility. Humility, or not being proud is the most difficult thing. That is why all the religions and spiritual traditions say that worst kind of sin is pride. Now for a scholar it is very very difficult to have no pride because that goes nearly against the very point. As a scholar it is very difficult even to loose your pride.
The story of Rumi tells it itself. He was a scholar too, but when he met Shams Tabrizi, a Sufi Dervish, he said that he broke all the pens and tore up all the paper. Which means that from this moment on, how can you continue in that same way? That's also the meaning of love, which he so often spoke off. Because you are attracted by someone else, and that someone else teaches you. You can not find things through yourself, through your own search, through your own efforts or through your own knowledge.
So we are here in this conference for a good purpose, but it is limited. I myself am a philosophy professor but my Sheik has told me from the first moment that I met him that he doesn't like it. He spoke of it as if it was one of the worst things to do. Prof. Stelzer laughs.
But he never told me to stop doing it, so here I am after twenty years still continuing to teach philosophy, but together with this other knowledge. Sometimes they are very difficult to combine, if not nearly impossible. But maybe there is also another purpose. Because if you have the other side as well, then you can come back to the scholars and 'rattle' them a little bit. They may not like it, but it is important.

You spoke in your presentation about the need for 'useful knowledge', and this of course relates to it. Can you say what that 'useful knowledge' might be that Rumi has to offer, not only to scholars, but to the world in general?

To answer that I'd like to quote Rumi, like I did in my presentation. Rumi said: “The end of all knowledge is to know your face on the day of resurrection.” So useful knowledge is whatever gets you closer to God. Useless knowledge is that which prevents you from doing that. That is the whole distinction. Although people may not present them in that way, 99% of our kinds of knowledges are a hindrance, are an obstacle. They are not helpful. They are mostly out of self-interest and selfishness. Useful knowledge is whatever helps you to get closer to Him.

This interview with Prof. Dr. Steffen Stelzer was conducted at the International Symposium on Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi in Istanbul on 08/05/2007.